Joaquin Flores:  Right well you’re right there have been some parallels have been draw there are some similarities it’s not exactly the same situation obviously but there are some strong similarities for example you have primarily NATO and the EU acting to create mayhem in a state and potentially to dismember that state, and you have a divided population and what was different with Yugoslavia is that each of the regions had their own autonomous sort of republics within Yugoslavia and while there’s autonomous regions within within Ukraine, for the last 10 or 15 years there’s been a strong push to create a unitary state, right? So but the strongest similarity Maurice is that you have NATO and the EU acting to destroy a state which is opposed to their long-term plans.

M: How much actual dirty tricks did they do?  Is it just the public sentiment or is it even you know stuff on the ground that they’re doing?

JF: Well there’s been a a long-term push to create a sort of reactionary isolationist atmosphere in Ukraine and just in the past several months the US has admitted already publicly to funneling over five billion dollars into creating this social chaos and mayhem in Ukraine;  but it goes back to the dissolution of the USSR where you know the Pope, John Paul II, was deeply involved through Poland  in creating a sort of Galician Catholic world view in the part of Ukraine that was historically – some centuries back – part of a larger Polish and Lithuanian power structure.  And one of the silly or frustrating things I think a lot of people have noted, right, is that the modern state of Ukraine today is the size that it is because of land grants given by the Russian Tzar and later by Lenin and later by Stalin. So the very same anti-Russian, whether Tzarist or Communist, the very same anti-Russian sentiments being expressed by the Ukrainian nationalists are a little bit .. weird right? Because it was the same people that gave them Ukraine and I mean  the real Ukrainian nationality is maybe 1/6th or 1/4th the present state of Ukraine.

M: Do you think do you think Russia’s going to actually intervene, send any troops?

JF: Well they have sent eleven thousand troops already Maurice, a lot of the credible reports  have already said, to the Crimean, and you know they have similar to in Syria they have a very important military port and trade port there in in the Crimean Peninsula.  Which historically was not part of old Ukraine and you know was result of the Crimean War and the Great game and and the struggle against the Ottomans, the Turks, so ;  but in the Crimean there’s always been a very – they’re Russian speakers – and there’s always been a very strong sense that they’re Russians there.  And as you may have heard and your viewers may have heard that the Russian flag was erected over the mayor’s office and the Supreme Soviet, still called the Supreme Soviet in the Crimea, the office of the Supreme Soviet in the Crimea they hoisted the Russian flag it was later taken down but they voted in and they installed a Russian mayor in Sevastopol and you know it it showed a lot of the early signs couple days ago that the whole state could just fracture could just you know splinter into two, three, four distinct units …

M:  It seems similar also to Georgia I mean Russia actually went in and annexed some territory with that conflict..

JF: Right right and I think Russia set a precedent and showed that it had the capability of doing this.

My sense is that they’ll use the fact that they’re capable of doing this and that they have demonstrated this precedent as a bargaining chip but they have so much tremendous pressure already to … they have so many cards to play with you with the Ukraine scenario that it would be tactically and ideologically and historically foolish to send in troops to make them look like the aggressors.   It’s been the NATO and the EU that’s been funding through NGOs and through doing, you know, real politiks and deep state work this whole scenario so why wouldn’t Russia do the same?  I mean why would be respond with with the a show of military force in what was primarily a well-funded NGO and psy-ops?

M: Well you know it seems the EU and NATO are on a roll and their they’re actually out to dismember Russia itself in and Ukraine is just a stepping stone ..

JF: Right that’s correct that’s correct and and I think also you know you have to keep in mind that the Syria situation hasn’t gone away and Russia’s made a very firm stance on the Syria situation right?   So why wouldn’t why wouldn’t the EU and NATO and the US course and the Israelis knowing that perhaps they can really win in Ukraine but if they can create enough problems in Ukraine for Russia they can use that as a bargaining chip you know if there’s a Geneva III right?  They would say okay now you know they’ve changed the facts on the ground and they’ve got some new bargaining chips and they can use you know mayhem in Ukraine to get to Iran.

I really don’t think that they have in their assessment you know, we all make our assessments, my assessment is not that they think they can attack Russia directly through  Ukraine today.  But I think that they can try to get Russia to look bad, to over commit, I think provoking a military reaction from the Russians would fall right in to what NATO or the US is hoping.   Rather instead I would propose that the natural geopolitical and geostrategic trajectory of Ukraine is naturally and historically drifting towards Eastern Europe and not towards Western Europe and so if you just maintain the gas lines, the roads, the trade, the infrastructure, the natural and economic developments that this, as it already has historically many times, and in the past 10 years as well, drifted back towards Russia.  So the you know Russia’s holding a lot of cards here um, there there are a few things with the demonstrators and protesters and the terrorists involved that I think would be interesting to your listeners as well.

My sense is that the Russian position is firm on this and that things are going in a way following one of the plans – one of the scenarios I should say they they have outlined.   Because as a result the last parliamentary election in Ukraine some of these things were already predictable and because the president Yanukovych was already kind of weak and sitting on top of sort of a big tent party that encompasses a lot of different tendencies that it was going to be a little bit easier for the Atlanticists for NATO to penetrate and to compromise …  so they bought some people off and they’ve gone in very hard with the NGO’s.  And they built in Kiev a big protest movement and we saw.  But then later there were armed terrorist groups that the media was calling protesters, just like in Libya and just like in Syria.

So if I would say you know as a title I would say that Ukraine is the Arab Spring combined with the Color Revolution 2.0 and the and that the NATO has learned how to synthesize and merge these two tactics: the Color Revolution and the Arab Spring.

M: You know I personally feel the Israel’s the spearhead of all these movements than that you know NATO’s just their surrogate attack as  are American forces. I should think they’re very active. There are apparently number of Ukrainian israelis dual citizenship uh but…

JF: Yes there’s a number yes

M: They escape the news headlines somehow and…

JF:  Yeah why is that? Yeah right

M:  That’s the best question you can ask.

JF: Right so if you have – if you have an Arab Spring right, in Ukraine and who are the Wahhabis?   So the Wahhabis in Ukraine and I hate to say this but it’s the right sector and I have a lot of sympathies for some the ideology of people who are sympathized with the Right Sector.  I think that some of their views are admirable, I think that ostensibly they’re anti materialist and ostensibly they’re fighting for some kind of spiritual rebirth.   But the problem is that there’s a lack of a geostrategic sense; they’re kind of a nationalist movement that’s cut off from, if I can say the “International Nationalist movement”?  And and there in a very very weird precarious situation the being led around by their nose Maurice, they’re being led around; Just like the Wahhabis have some, you know, some ideas which are not awful …

M: They’re probably the equivalent of a paid private army, they were just called in at the time they were needed like some crack commandos it seems.

JF: Oh of course I mean you have that, that is you know at least half of it.  But you had a real political party of the right sector as a neo-nazi party which is the fourth largest party in the country and then the third largest party is Klitchko’s, the MMA (rather, a boxer – ed.)   Ukrainian guy and he’s hardcore Zionists and he’s well financed by the Zionists and he’s one of the main fighters one of the main spokespeople and seen as one of the main leaders of kind of the hard core of the right wing of the right sector and uh but I want to back off from these terms like right and left because they don’t really make sense I think to English-speaking viewers, (when speaking about)  in the post-communist world because these kind of have flipped and distorted meanings, “right and left”.

M:  Very much so, but I I don’t know if I may, can I just ask you – changing the subject – about Serbia?

Are there misgivings about Serbia entering the EU?  Is there disquiet in the country?

JF:  Well I tell you, it still polls at about seventy percent of the population is against entry into the EU and you know we’re just a day’s drive away from Ukraine, its one country over you know you’ve got Romania and Ukraine and its it’s the things that happen in Ukraine and the way Russia and NATO deal with Ukraine is gonna tell us a lot about what’s gonna happen soon here in Serbia.

M: But you have officially entered the EU is that correct?

JF:  No! Not entered the EU-  it would it would you know it’s uh; If we had the most pro EU party, which we don’t, but if we had the most EU party in power it would still be a 6-8 year process minimum, and with the ostensibly euro skeptic but officially pro-eu party in power now uh it’d probably take ten to fourteen years.  Uh without boring the details there’s about 8 outstanding provisions that are real loggerhead problems that would be very difficult to get past.

But I think also with the things that are happening right next door in Bosnia the Bosnian Spring is popping up this hasn’t been reported too much about, but there’s a there’s a crazy new frenzy to re-engage in ethnic cleansing of Serbs.  You have the nationalist Bosnian groups, uh and they work hand in hand – they’re secular right? But they work hand in hand with Wahabbists and the Salafists that the Saudis were successful in making alliances with the during the Third Balkans War that we talked about last time, and so the largest al Qaeda training camp in the in the whole Balkans as in Bosnia right?

M: Are you? Sorry go on ..

JF:  Well so you have to; directly to our East in Ukraine right past Romania a you have this big thing popping off, but over in Bosnia you have a similar thing popping off so you know.

A lot of people say this looks like the kinda stuff that leads towards a major outbreak, a major conflict, you know regional war, world war.  A lot of people say that, of course I’m skeptical of big claims.  But god it really feels like it that sometimes.

M:  Are you familiar with any the opinions uh the surrounding countries of Ukraine?  There’s a number there’s Belarus, Hungary and Poland?

JF:  Right well yes well Ukraine is is a except for that little one-fifth in the middle of the country that we talked about Ukraine is kind of an artificial creation.  So it is Russia in the east and in the west it is kind of like Belarus Poland and Hungary and Romania you have a Wallachian section part of Ukraine which wants,  which people there feel like they are Moldovan and and Romanian and you’ve got a Hungarian influence.  You have a lot of people that feel affinity towards Poles who are like Galicians.

And if Ukraine were to fall apart I mean you know they’d be autonomous separatist movements it could be influenced by any the different powers they could use all those as chips to like – “is Poland gonna accrete more territory?” You know Belarus is a firm ally Russia, so anything that Poland wants to do now is gonna be against what Belarus wants.

And but they are both sitting right on top with Ukraine right so what can Belarus do so help stabilize things in Ukraine,  What can Poland do to help make things deteriorate more rapidly?

M: Well presumably Belarus is next uh the next target after ..

JF:  I think you understand that, I think you understand that very well and you can see right on the map it’s a corridor and it if the underbelly of (that is the) Ukraine is rotting away Belarus is prone to attack.  And then all these are bargaining chips back to Israel to use in its regional campaign in the Levant and it wants to take more of Jordan wants to take more of Lebanon it wants to take the Sinai Peninsula any need all these pressure points to destroy Iran to destroy Syria and they need Russia to back off so they need to set fires, like arson fires, in Russia’s backyard and Russia’s frontier to get Russia to come to the table may be at Geneva III?  Or whatever, and to agree to create a humanitarian corridor in Syria.

M: What I find a strange Psy-op  is i feel like um,  you know the the Israeli forces are pretty happy that this far-right overthrew the the Russian sympathize.. sympathetic government in Ukraine..

JF: Big time big time

M: But now they’re crying that because these allies have the Nazis a have come to power that you know people need to turn to Israel for support.

JF:  Right right I mean it’s like you know, well there you know it’s the same Israelis are funding the Wahhabis everywhere and then they’re going “Oh but these Wahhabis are you know anti-semitic” and stuff but they’re controlled and just like the right sector in in Ukraine is controlled and you know despite some the finer points of some of their esoteric beliefs which are somewhat admirable okay, they’re just being led around by the nose and they’re being led by Israel and by NATO and and they’re just they’re just puppets and they’re gonna destroy what remains a civil society.

If, if EU actually wants Ukraine to be stable they want it to be a country that can take on debt and pay it back, but United States wants to destroy Ukraine United States wants to make Ukraine into like Iraq or like Syria might become – so they want to create a failed state right on Russia’s frontier so you can have you know all kinds of people you know arming Chechens, Tartars,  you’re gonna have you know Catholics, Poles, you’re gonna have Ukrainian Nazis.  They want to just create like a big … you know what i’m saying?

M: No, you’ve given us plen ..

JF:  I don’t wanna use words, not to offend, well they want to make it a multi-party fun time you know in in Ukraine, and, but Europe doesn’t want that so that’s why Nuland said “Fuck the EU” oh excuse my French, but that’s why I’m just quoting as a journalist right I’m just quoting what Nuland said she said ‘F the EU’. And that’s why, because the EU and US don’t agree.

Because actually Russia has been successful in penetrating  EU markets and energy markets are very important for the EU and you know there’s a lot of import-export trade and and and the Russians have built their own NGOs and they’ve done a lot of work in central Europe to support ostensibly pro-business and center-right parties but that are pro-Russian ultimately in many ways.

So its you know the the US’s really trying to fight against how Europe is becoming  neutralized or Finlandized and and Russia’s long-term strategy for the past 100 years whether we’re talking Czars, Bolshevism, or you know New Russia  – it’s all the same in terms that they’re same geostrategic outlook which is that you cannot maintain a hostile border between you know Russia and Central Europe you need to either have a neutralized Europe or Europe needs to be one with Eurasia.

And and so between the different you know factions in the old Soviet Union that was the debate whether you know you you push the Soviet Union West Spain? Or or whether you try to neutralize them and Findlandize them.  And the whole point of NATO the whole time was to make Europe kind of part in the US in terms of you know following the Zionist marching orders …

M: Well it’s all about dissolving the nation’s; the end of the nation-state

JF: Well it is it is.  You know Europe needs trade partners and it needs to make agreements with governments that ostensibly represent nation-states but the US doesn’t need that the US has a totally different.  Its military-industrial complex, trade is kinda secondary to the US where as for Europe its primary.

And so the US is like “Hey where can we you know just set fires and where can we set back the hands of time in terms of destroying material infrastructure?  How can we make ourselves more competitive by making our opponents less competitive?  Right we don’t have to beat anything we just have to destroy the world.”

M: It’s all dirty tricks up but led, led by the nameless ones can, listen we’ve gone for 20 minutes can we tie up now?

JF: Hey I think that said it all I guess I would just say: Right sector in Ukraine is is controlled by the Atlanticists and as much as might think that someone the finer points that what they’re saying makes sense ostensibly on paper, that organizationally they’re being run by the Atlanticists and so its there’s a possibility now that Ukraine might dissolve my might to self-destruct or be destroyed.